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<rfc ipr="trust200902" docName="draft-hoffman-deleg-getting-names-01" category="info" consensus="true" submissionType="IETF" tocInclude="true" sortRefs="true" symRefs="true">
  <front>
    <title abbrev="Getting Nameservers">Getting Nameservers in the New Delegation Protocol</title>

    <author initials="P." surname="Hoffman" fullname="Paul Hoffman">
      <organization>ICANN</organization>
      <address>
        <email>paul.hoffman@icann.org</email>
      </address>
    </author>

    <date year="2025" month="March" day="16"/>

    
    
    

    <abstract>


<?line 29?>

<t>The DELEG Working Group is soon going to be choosing a base protocol that describes how resolvers will be able to get a new DNS resource record to create a new process for DNS delegation.
After a resolver gets this new type of record, it needs to know how to process the record in order to get a set of nameservers for a zone.
This document lists many of the considerations for that process, including many open questions for the DELEG Working Group.
More considerations and open questions might be added in later versions of this draft.</t>

<t>Note that this draft is <em>not</em> intended to become an RFC.
It is being published so that the DELEG Working Group has a place to point its efforts about how resolvers get nameservers for a zone while it continues to work on choosing a base protocol.
The work that results from this might be included in the base protocol specification, or in a new draft authored by some of the many people who have done earlier work in this area.</t>



    </abstract>



  </front>

  <middle>


<?line 40?>

<section anchor="introduction"><name>Introduction</name>

<t>The <eref target="https://datatracker.ietf.org/group/deleg/about/">DELEG Working Group</eref> is choosing a base protocol for "a new DNS signaling mechanism that allows parents to return additional DNS delegation information about their children".
This document specifies how that information will appear in the new resource records from the base protocol, and what resolvers that receive those records will do with them.</t>

<t>According to the working group charter, after it has chosen the base protocol, it will specify "new DNS authoritative signaling mechanisms for alternative DNS transports".
<xref target="addr-and-transport"/> of this document gives some ideas for what those extensions might include, and how they related to the mechanisms in this document.</t>

<section anchor="assumptions-about-the-eventual-base-protocol"><name>Assumptions about the Eventual Base Protocol</name>

<t>The WG is making a choice between <xref target="I-D.wesplaap-deleg"/> (called "W" here) and <xref target="I-D.homburg-deleg-incremental-deleg"/> (called "H" here).
W and H are quite different in their requirements for operation of the new delegation mechanism.
W and H agree on using the same display and wire format as SVCB <xref target="RFC9460"/> for records returned to the resolver in delegation responses.</t>

<t>In SVCB, the first field in the RR is called the "SvcPriority", and different values cause the resolver to go into "AliasMode" or "ServiceMode".
The result of using this field in resolution is a set of "alternative endpoints".
The second field is called "TargetName".
The third field is optional, and is called "SvcParams"; it has a lot of sub-fields, some of which are useful for the DNS delegation use cases.</t>

<t>In order to not confuse this with specifics that W (DELEG) and H (IDELEG) gave beyond the base protocol, the new record type returned in delegation responses is called "DD" here.
(Of course, the name can be whatever the WG chooses in the eventual base protocol.)
DD has different semantics from SVCB because SCVB assumed a base protocol of HTTPS.
W gives different names to values for the first field in the RR, and for sub-fields in the optional third field.
Other names from W and H and SVCB are renamed here for clarity; the eventual names might be completely different.</t>

<t>The base protocol will allow for later extensions in the third field.
Those extensions might reuse entries in the <eref target="https://www.iana.org/assignments/dns-svcb/dns-svcb.xhtml">IANA SVCB registry</eref>, they might add new extensions to that registry, or there might be a new registry for the DD record.</t>

</section>
<section anchor="bcp-14-language"><name>BCP 14 Language</name>

<t>The key words "<bcp14>MUST</bcp14>", "<bcp14>MUST NOT</bcp14>", "<bcp14>REQUIRED</bcp14>", "<bcp14>SHALL</bcp14>", "<bcp14>SHALL
NOT</bcp14>", "<bcp14>SHOULD</bcp14>", "<bcp14>SHOULD NOT</bcp14>", "<bcp14>RECOMMENDED</bcp14>", "<bcp14>NOT RECOMMENDED</bcp14>",
"<bcp14>MAY</bcp14>", and "<bcp14>OPTIONAL</bcp14>" in this document are to be interpreted as
described in BCP 14 <xref target="RFC2119"/> <xref target="RFC8174"/> when, and only when, they
appear in all capitals, as shown here.</t>

<?line -18?>

</section>
</section>
<section anchor="getting-nameserver-names-for-a-zone"><name>Getting Nameserver Names for a Zone</name>

<t>The goal of the DELEG Working Group effort is to give resolvers a better way create a set of nameservers for a zone when making DNS queries to authoritative servers.
For both W and H, when a resolver makes a query that gets a delegation response, the resolver may get back one or more DD records and NS records that it can further process to create the set of nameservers for the zone.
This eventual set of nameservers can be called the "DDN"; this is quite different from the set of DD records it received).</t>

<t>In DD, the first field can be thought of as indicating the <em>action</em> to find names for the DDN other than the NS records that might be at the apex, using the second field as a domain name <em>where</em> to look.
The first field can be called "DDA" and the second "DDW".
THe third fied, which holds metadata about the DDW, can be called "DDM"</t>

<t>Both W and H agree that a DDA of value 0 means an action like "find the DDN elsewhere based on the value in the DDW", and a value of 1 means something like "the name in DDW is an entry in DDN".
Thus, when a resolver receives one or more DD records with a DDA of 0, it needs to do more processing.
When it receives one or more DD records with a DDA of 1, it takes the DDW from those records and puts them into the DDN (possibly with additional information from the DDM, such as from <xref target="addr-and-transport"/>).</t>

<section anchor="how-a-resolver-processes-the-dd-record"><name>How a Resolver Processes the DD Record</name>

<t>What action does a resolver take when it gets a DDA of 0?
When talking about the DELEG Working Group work beyond the base protocol, W and H have similar but different actions for finding eventual additions to the DDN.
W and H follow chains of CNAME, DNAME, and SVCB records, with some limits to prevent loops or excessive processing.
%% The previous sentence might be wrong; it's the best I could determine from the drafts. %%</t>

<t>Is the addition to the DDN different if following a DDA of 0 leads to signed vs. unsigned responses?
Asked another way, if the DDN contains some results that were signed and some that were unsigned, does the DDN become an ordered list or are the unsigned results discarded?</t>

<t>The resolver [[ <bcp14>MAY</bcp14> / <bcp14>SHOULD</bcp14> / <bcp14>SHOULD NOT</bcp14> / <bcp14>MUST</bcp14> / <bcp14>MUST NOT</bcp14> ]] use the NS records that were returned with the query to expand the DDN.
(If <bcp14>SHOULD</bcp14> or <bcp14>SHOULD NOT</bcp14> is chosen by the WG, the exceptions need to be listed.)</t>

<t>Can the DD RRset contain records with different values for DDA? SVCB says no, but W and H say yes (but differently).</t>

</section>
</section>
<section anchor="addr-and-transport"><name>Addresses and Transports</name>

<t>According to the working group charter, after it has chosen the base protocol, it will specify "new DNS authoritative signaling mechanisms for alternative DNS transports".
This section has some brief ideas about what those might entail and what questions might need to be answered.</t>

<section anchor="addresses"><name>Addresses</name>

<t>The third field in the DD record will have a subfield to indicate the IPv4 and IPv6 address(es) associated with the DDW.
The subfield can be called "DDI".</t>

<t>Can a DD with a DDA of 0 have a DDI in the record? In SVCB they cannot, but the SVCB spec allows other specs to allow them.</t>

<t>Is the value for the DDI a single address or potentially a list? If the former, how are multiple DDs with the same DDA and DDW combined?</t>

<t>What happens if some of the discovered name/address pairs have different addresses?
Does that disagreement in the DDN cause the removal of something from the DDN?</t>

</section>
<section anchor="transports"><name>Transports</name>

<t>The third field in the DD record will have a subfield to indicate the transport(s) associated with the DDW.
The subfield can be called "DDT".</t>

<t>Can a DD with a DDA of 0 have a DDT in the record? In SVCB they cannot, but the SVCB spec allows other specs to allow them.</t>

<t>Some specific DNS transports will be allowed or required with DDT.
Which secure transport(s), if any, will be mandory to implement?</t>

<t>Does supporting both TLS and QUIC make operational or security sense?</t>

<t>Does supporting DOH make operational or security sense if other secure transport is allowed?</t>

<t>If either or both TLS and DoH are allowed, which versions of TLS are allowed?</t>

<t>Does Do53 need to be specified every time it is available?</t>

</section>
<section anchor="authentication-of-secure-transports"><name>Authentication of Secure Transports</name>

<t>How will clients deal with authenticating TLS?
Should they just use the web PKI pile of CAs, or will something else be specified?</t>

<t>Should certificates with IP addresses be supported?</t>

<t>Should clients ignore PKIX Extended Key Usage settings?</t>

<t>Should clients fall back to unauthenticated encrypted transport, all the way to Do53, or fail to resolve?</t>

</section>
</section>
<section anchor="iana-considerations"><name>IANA Considerations</name>

<t>%% There may be IANA considerations when the working group finishes this work. %%</t>

</section>
<section anchor="security-considerations"><name>Security Considerations</name>

<t>%% There will certainly be security considerations when the working group finishes this work. %%</t>

</section>


  </middle>

  <back>



    <references title='Normative References' anchor="sec-normative-references">




<reference anchor="I-D.wesplaap-deleg">
   <front>
      <title>Extensible Delegation for DNS</title>
      <author fullname="Tim April" initials="T." surname="April">
         <organization>Google, LLC</organization>
      </author>
      <author fullname="Petr Špaček" initials="P." surname="Špaček">
         <organization>ISC</organization>
      </author>
      <author fullname="Ralf Weber" initials="R." surname="Weber">
         <organization>Akamai Technologies</organization>
      </author>
      <author fullname="David C Lawrence" initials="" surname="Lawrence">
         <organization>Salesforce</organization>
      </author>
      <date day="18" month="February" year="2025"/>
      <abstract>
	 <t>   A delegation in the Domain Name System (DNS) is a mechanism that
   enables efficient and distributed management of the DNS namespace.
   It involves delegating authority over subdomains to specific DNS
   servers via NS records, allowing for a hierarchical structure and
   distributing the responsibility for maintaining DNS records.

   An NS record contains the hostname of the nameserver for the
   delegated namespace.  Any facilities of that nameserver must be
   discovered through other mechanisms.  This document proposes a new
   extensible DNS record type, DELEG, for delegation the authority for a
   domain.  Future documents then can use this mechanism to use
   additional information about the delegated namespace and the
   capabilities of authoritative nameservers for the delegated
   namespace.

	 </t>
      </abstract>
   </front>
   <seriesInfo name="Internet-Draft" value="draft-wesplaap-deleg-02"/>
   
</reference>

<reference anchor="I-D.homburg-deleg-incremental-deleg">
   <front>
      <title>Incrementally Deployable Extensible Delegation for DNS</title>
      <author fullname="Philip Homburg" initials="P." surname="Homburg">
         <organization>NLnet Labs</organization>
      </author>
      <author fullname="Tim Wicinski" initials="T." surname="Wicinski">
         <organization>Cox Communications</organization>
      </author>
      <author fullname="Jesse van Zutphen" initials="J." surname="van Zutphen">
         <organization>University of Amsterdam</organization>
      </author>
      <author fullname="Willem Toorop" initials="W." surname="Toorop">
         <organization>NLnet Labs</organization>
      </author>
      <date day="3" month="March" year="2025"/>
      <abstract>
	 <t>   This document proposes a mechanism for extensible delegations in the
   DNS.  The mechanism realizes delegations with resource record sets
   placed below a _deleg label in the apex of the delegating zone.  This
   authoritative delegation point can be aliased to other names using
   CNAME and DNAME.  This document proposes a new DNS resource record
   type, IDELEG, which is based on the SVCB and inherits extensibility
   from it.

   Support in recursive resolvers suffices for the mechanism to be fully
   functional.  The number of subsequent interactions between the
   recursive resolver and the authoritative name servers is comparable
   with those for DNS Query Name Minimisation.  Additionally, but not
   required, support in the authoritative name servers enables optimized
   behavior with reduced (simultaneous) queries.  None, mixed or full
   deployment of the mechanism on authoritative name servers are all
   fully functional, allowing for the mechanism to be incrementally
   deployed.

	 </t>
      </abstract>
   </front>
   <seriesInfo name="Internet-Draft" value="draft-homburg-deleg-incremental-deleg-03"/>
   
</reference>
<reference anchor="RFC9460">
  <front>
    <title>Service Binding and Parameter Specification via the DNS (SVCB and HTTPS Resource Records)</title>
    <author fullname="B. Schwartz" initials="B." surname="Schwartz"/>
    <author fullname="M. Bishop" initials="M." surname="Bishop"/>
    <author fullname="E. Nygren" initials="E." surname="Nygren"/>
    <date month="November" year="2023"/>
    <abstract>
      <t>This document specifies the "SVCB" ("Service Binding") and "HTTPS" DNS resource record (RR) types to facilitate the lookup of information needed to make connections to network services, such as for HTTP origins. SVCB records allow a service to be provided from multiple alternative endpoints, each with associated parameters (such as transport protocol configuration), and are extensible to support future uses (such as keys for encrypting the TLS ClientHello). They also enable aliasing of apex domains, which is not possible with CNAME. The HTTPS RR is a variation of SVCB for use with HTTP (see RFC 9110, "HTTP Semantics"). By providing more information to the client before it attempts to establish a connection, these records offer potential benefits to both performance and privacy.</t>
    </abstract>
  </front>
  <seriesInfo name="RFC" value="9460"/>
  <seriesInfo name="DOI" value="10.17487/RFC9460"/>
</reference>
<reference anchor="RFC2119">
  <front>
    <title>Key words for use in RFCs to Indicate Requirement Levels</title>
    <author fullname="S. Bradner" initials="S." surname="Bradner"/>
    <date month="March" year="1997"/>
    <abstract>
      <t>In many standards track documents several words are used to signify the requirements in the specification. These words are often capitalized. This document defines these words as they should be interpreted in IETF documents. This document specifies an Internet Best Current Practices for the Internet Community, and requests discussion and suggestions for improvements.</t>
    </abstract>
  </front>
  <seriesInfo name="BCP" value="14"/>
  <seriesInfo name="RFC" value="2119"/>
  <seriesInfo name="DOI" value="10.17487/RFC2119"/>
</reference>
<reference anchor="RFC8174">
  <front>
    <title>Ambiguity of Uppercase vs Lowercase in RFC 2119 Key Words</title>
    <author fullname="B. Leiba" initials="B." surname="Leiba"/>
    <date month="May" year="2017"/>
    <abstract>
      <t>RFC 2119 specifies common key words that may be used in protocol specifications. This document aims to reduce the ambiguity by clarifying that only UPPERCASE usage of the key words have the defined special meanings.</t>
    </abstract>
  </front>
  <seriesInfo name="BCP" value="14"/>
  <seriesInfo name="RFC" value="8174"/>
  <seriesInfo name="DOI" value="10.17487/RFC8174"/>
</reference>



    </references>





  </back>

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